Are You Financially Ready for Your Future?

Are You Financially Ready for Your Future?

Jan Blakeley Holman

Hi, it’s Jan Blakeley Holman, host of the #NowMe podcast. This week, we’re bringing you something special. Recently a podcaster named Amy Palmer reached out to me to ask if I wanted to join her for an interview. I was happy to do so, especially since the audience for Amy’s podcast, The Modern Elderwoman, is women over 45 with a special spotlight on the lifestyle “blueprint breakers” who are not currently partnered or parents.

During her podcasts, Amy focuses on the unique needs of this group discussing health, finances, caregiving, retirement, menopause, socialization, family and more.

Amy, originally from upstate New York, now has home bases in New York, New Jersey, Washington DC and California. No wonder she calls herself a nomad. She left her successful corporate career in 2022 and is currently freelancing as an operations and sales specialist.

Amy’s podcast, The Modern Elderwoman, can be found anywhere you get your podcasts.

I hope you enjoy our conversation where we discussed the question, “Are you financially ready for your future?”

Amy Palmer

Welcome to The Modern Elderwoman Podcast. We are here today to start a conversation, to assemble resources and to build a community. This podcast is for empowered women in midlife and beyond who are preparing for or in the midst of a powerful third age. My name is Amy A. Palmer. I am your host and facilitator for our conversations. All women are welcome here. And we will be highlighting and spotlighting all the women over 45 who are living an untraditional lifestyle, whom I like to call blueprint breakers. So sit back, relax and enjoy the conversation. We’d love to hear from you, love to hear your feedback, ideas, suggestions. Or if you’d like to be part of a future episode, you can reach me via email at amy@amyapalmer.com.

Welcome to today’s episode, “Are you financially ready for your future?” Let’s face it talking about finances can be very dry and boring, or intimidating or something that we avoid or something that we don’t like to talk about with each other. But today’s conversation is none of those things. I have a wonderful conversation with Jan Blakeley Holman who gives very real world solid advice on how do we tackle this, what do we do to make sure that we are fully, fully prepared for this third age of our life and beyond. And so that we can continue to live the full lives that we now have.

Let me share a little bit about Jan Blakeley Holman. She is director of advisor education at Thornburg Investment Management. She’s responsible for identifying and creating advisor education programs that support financial advisors as they work with their clients and prospects. Jan has spent more than four decades in the financial services industry. Over the course of her career, she’s served as a financial advisor and advisor to the financial advisor and a financial services corporate executive. She’s a frequent presenter at broker dealer and industry conferences, where she discusses topics like women and investing; women in transition; longevity planning; managing legacy wealth. She’s an internationally published author, her columns are translated and syndicated in numerous global publications. A strong believer in the importance of the financial advisor-investor relationship. Throughout her career, Jan has demonstrated a passion for helping consumers understand the often off-putting language of financial services. On the personal side, she’s an avid skier, photographer, a novice silversmith and her career at Thornburg has enabled her to achieve her goal of living life on purpose by doing rewarding and meaningful work while enjoying the beautiful mountains of Santa Fe. Jan lives in Minnesota and is a mother of three and a grandmother of five. She’s definitely a blueprint breaker as one of the very first women in this industry. And she holds a BA in political science from the University of Denver. So please enjoy my conversation with Jan, and I’d love to hear what you think about it. Drop me an email amy@amyapalmer.com. You will also find in the show notes, I put a link to Jan’s podcast, wonderful information on her podcast, and a link to one of our articles and a little bit more information about her. So sit back, enjoy and let me know what you think.

Hello, Jan, thank you for joining us today. Nice to see you.

Jan 

Nice to see you too. Amy. Thanks for having me.

Amy

Well, I really appreciate you making the time to talk. I know that this is a topic that is top of mind for a lot of my audience and listeners as we think about our future and think about preparing for the future, et cetera. And so when I connected with you, I just thought that you would be able to bring a lot of insight to the topic and the conversation. But before we get to that I would love to hear a little bit about your journey. I know that you advise financial advisors who advise women? I’m curious about what attracted you to this path?

Jan

Well, you know that that’s a pretty easy question, given the number of years I’ve been in the industry. In March, I will start my 47th year in the industry. So if you can think back to 47 years ago, you can imagine that women who were in the financial services industry as financial advisors, were few and far between. I remember sitting in a bullpen, you know, where I used to work at one of the large firms a couple years after I got into the industry, and having spit balls thrown at the back of my head from the male, financial representatives who worked with me.

Amy

Wow.

Jan

It was a different world. So I tend to have a very soft spot in my heart for women in this industry and women as investors, because I know, if I hadn’t have gotten into this industry, I would be really, potentially in bad shape in terms of my finances, I have no idea how I would have learned what I know.

Amy

Right. Right. Well, good. I mean, obviously, you’re making an impact and spreading your knowledge as an educator, as well. So that’s really impressive. You and I have talked about the fact that my audience is primarily, they’re in the age range of 45 to 65. And I’m curious, at this point, like you mentioned yourself, if you hadn’t gone down this path, you wouldn’t know what you know. So if you find yourself, like myself, and some of my peers, not feeling as financially literate as we’d like to be, I’m curious if you’ve got any advice or guidance on, you know, what do we do? What steps do we take to educate ourselves?

Jan

Well, you know, reading is almost always a way to go. But we all learn things differently. So I would hesitate to say, get some books and read them. Because some people are going to be like, there’s no way I could read that it’s so boring. You know, let’s get real, this stuff can be deadly boring. So maybe I’d have lunch with a couple of friends and say, “How do you feel about financial information? Are you confident? What have you done to educate yourself or increase your knowledge?” That type of thing. And then seek out ways to get information. It may be watching somebody talk about investing or financial concepts on public television. It may be going to YouTube. You may want to drill down on YouTube or just Google a specific subject you’re interested in, like Social Security. Which by the way, given the fact that probably 95% of us will benefit from Social Security, somehow, I am amazed at how complicated it is. It is not something that Congress­—I guess this isn’t surprising—that Congress decided they were going to make easy for us the rules and the you know, the requirements, and all those types of things are just ridiculous. So it may be a subject that you’re interested in.

Amy

That makes sense. And it’s interesting, it’s not something that most people discuss amongst their friends and family very often, you know, so I think when you when you talked about that getting together with a group of friends and asking that’s a great start. And that’s something that a lot of us do, I think,

Jan

Well, you know, I think we avoid talking about it, because we assume we have to talk about the specifics. Like I have X amount of dollars in my 401k. You don’t have to get into your personal stuff. You can talk about the concepts. What do you what do you guys know about or gals or however, you know, that’s a regional thing. I’m from the Upper Midwest, so everybody’s a guy. What do you all know about investing? How have you learned it? Where do you seek information on that? That’s the best way also to possibly get some recommendations for financial advisors, if you’re looking for something like that someone who can work with you to help you make good decisions.

Amy

Great. I do know that in conversations that I have been having, that many middle-aged women feel that they’re not prepared for retirement, and they’re not even sure what that what that even means, you know? How do we determine whether or not we’re on track to have an have enough saved for our retirement?

Jan

Well, I’ve thought that the word retirement is like, passe. If you look retirement up in the dictionary, whether or not that’s done online, or you actually have a dictionary, what you’re going to find is it’s defined as going to a place of seclusion. I mean, it’s all very dark and…

Amy

Doesn’t sound exciting.

Jan

…End of life-ish. It’s not a positive and uplifting thing. So, I’d like to think of it as the point where we reimagine our lives. I happen to be a Baby Boomer and many baby boomers are still working and will keep on working. You know, just generally, the population, as it ages is more healthy than it’s ever been. I, you know, personally, my mother is 98 and a half. And she’s still going, and is very healthy. And, you know, maybe I’m gonna live that long. So why would I need to retire when I was 65? Which, honestly, I already passed. Where did those, you know, dictates come from? They’re very societal norm-ish. And I think many of us will keep on working, maybe we won’t work in our chosen profession. That’s especially true when it comes to professions where somebody has to do a lot of physical labor. But for those of us who were in the service industry, or, you know, do a lot of our work where we’re thinking or writing or, you know, communicating with others, we can work for a long time. If we can have an 80-year-old president, for goodness sake…

Amy

Yeah, good point.

Jan

We can work to age 80 if we want to. If we want to.

Amy

I think that might be it, meaning that there might there could come a point where we just don’t want to have to work or maybe not have to work as much or as hard, or maybe in a different way, right?

Jan

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So when you think about that, I mean, if you’re in a corporate environment, and you’ve been in a corporate environment for years, sometimes it gets really old.

Amy

Yes.

Jan

Where you may have a manager person who’s more unprepared to be a manager than anyone you’ve ever met. And that can be very frustrating. So what I think we all want is the choice to be able to make the choice. Yeah. And the choice may be you only are employed on a part time basis, or you work in a different industry, that you have a passion for a hobby, you start selling artwork, something like that. Understanding what your potential choices might be at that point is really important. And if you rewind to a younger age, that’s why it’s really critical that we know our purpose. You know, what’s my life all about? What do I want to pass on to children, grandchildren, relatives, friends, and what am I doing to be able to achieve that goal. Having a purpose increases longevity. Having a purpose that you have passion for can give you an alternative to what work you’ve done as a career.

My ex-husband’s grandparents were both doctors. His grandmother was at Johns Hopkins in 1905 getting her medical degree. Their three sons were all doctors. And two of them were artists. And they didn’t want to be doctors, they wanted to be artists. And they were very good artists. But you know, there was the familial pressure to be physicians and surgeons. So I know there are tons of people like that, who probably listen to your podcast. And I would say make sure you take your passions, your hobbies, your art, or music seriously. Don’t blow it up, just because you’re not doing it for a living now. Be creative. Think about how possibly potentially you could do that for a living. Hmm. I love that.

Amy

I love that. I love that. And, I mean, it sounds like to as I’m listening to you describe that, there’s not really one set calculation for somebody to be able to figure out what’s the right amount. What should their savings look like? And all that kind of thing. If it sounds it’s not really that straightforward,

Jan

Well, it isn’t, you know. I think the financial services industry has done the public a disservice to some extent, because it was very easy for us to make it about numbers. Numbers don’t have emotion. Numbers are very objective. You can’t argue with it, you can’t argue about them, you know, five times x is five times x. But there are so many emotional things that go into the money we have, how much money we grow, in order to support us in the future. How much money we need on an ongoing basis. It isn’t one set formula. And people can change their lifestyle, their standard of living, and I’m not suggesting that we should expect to live on less. In some cases, people who have been absolutely petrified about not having enough money and put away so much money, that they’re scared to spend it.

Amy

To use it. To live.

Jan

Yeah. So it can work both ways. My point is, if somebody tells you that there is one answer, run.

Amy

Okay. That’s a good point. So, for those people who do wish that they were better prepared financially for their future, and they want to correct that. What’s your best recommendation for how to catch up, how to work on that?

Jan

Well, first of all, I’d say it’s never too late to make good decisions. I’d also recommend a financial adviser. We’re not all experts in this area. Why should we be? And why don’t we think we have to be realistic. Few of us were taught anything about money and investing in you know, elementary school, middle school or high school. But we’re supposed to be experts in it. I don’t think so. Let’s rely upon people who actually have made that their profession. And how do you find somebody that you can work with. Well, get some recommendations again from your friends or family members, and interview some people. Go visit some financial experts, financial advisors probably, and ask them some questions. If the person, for example, speaks in industry lingo, and you don’t understand what they’re saying, you don’t want to work with that person. You want someone who speaks your language. Somebody who listens to what you need. Somebody who talks less than you do in the interview. No, because it’s about you, not about them. Yes, they have a process. They’re used to working with clients, but you know, that’s less important, then them hearing you. And then decide, if out of those recommended people, there’s somebody you’d like to work with, and begin working with them. And they’ll be able to look at your financial situation and say, okay, you know, here’s where you can make decisions, right now. Here’s some things you could change, to put yourself in a better position, given what you’ve told me you want. And, you know, we’ll monitor it on an ongoing basis. And let’s keep on talking.

Amy

Right. I think I mean, I can speak from myself, because I haven’t been happy with a couple of the professionals that I’ve used. And it’s, I don’t know what I don’t know. So then I’m a little intimidated that they know more. So it’s difficult to try to determine, do they know what they’re talking about? Are they any good at what they’re doing? So that’s the part that kind of is a sticking point for me, as I’m trying to find a good advisor.

Jan

Well, part of what they’re doing or should be doing is not doing that. Okay. Part of what they should be doing is hearing what you’re saying and figuring out what language you’re speaking, and then speaking your language. I mean, that’s what it’s about. I mean, I don’t mean literally the language, but if you use that in a literal sense, if you went into a financial advisor, you spoke English, and they spoke Irish, that is not going to be a great combo. If you go into a financial advisor, to meet with them, and they’re talking about all this stuff, that just sounds like a bunch of gobbledygook, that’s not the right person. Absolutely. And it’s okay. To turn around, you know, gracefully and say, “Thank you very much” and not work with that person. It’s okay. It’s not right that you should feel that you have to be intimidated, in order to be getting good advice. That’s BS. You need somebody who understands what your level is, in terms of knowledge, and also what you’re trying to achieve. I mean, the whole relationship and it is a relationship. It is a relationship. The whole relationship is about trust and vulnerability on both sides and compassion on the side of the advisor. I’m sure you can be compassionate as a client too. But you know what I mean, it’s not about well, you know, my goal as an advisor is to impress everybody. Forget that. You know, really, if you’re working with people who make you feel uncomfortable or make you feel stupid, get out of there.

Amy

It’s good advice. I was I was going to ask where’s the best place to find a good advisor, but it sounds like recommendation and referral is your top suggestion for that.

Jan

That’s one of the top suggestions. Also, sometimes community ed, where somebody’s teaching an investment course or something like that in community ed. Now brought probably they’re teaching in community ed, because they’re interested in increasing the number of clients they have. But you also, if you’re teaching community ed, you also have to take the time to want to provide the “students” who come to your program with meaningful education. So it’s not all just about, you know, hooking new clients. So that might be a way to begin. If nothing else, you probably learned some things. And go with some friends. This stuff is often so boring.

Amy

It’s dry.

Jan

Yes, it is. It’s deadly. Don’t lay down in bed, start reading an investment book or hope it’s gonna get really exciting on page 32. Because you’re gonna be asleep.

Amy

But you enjoy it, you enjoy talking about it. So you must have livened it up for yourself over the years.

Jan

I enjoy talking about it because we all need it. And I feel like my purpose is to talk about it in a language that people will understand and not to demean people and not to try to prove that I’m brilliant, because I’m not. I mean, I hate to admit this, but it was when I got into the business—Okay, after I had a college degree—that I figured out that you can divide the top part of a fraction by the bottom part and get a percentage. Okay, shouldn’t I’ve learned that like in ninth grade? It’s not like I’m a mathematician. I got a degree in political science. You know, and I’m not even an expert in that. So I just feel fortunate that I’ve been able to be in this industry a long time. And I find it fascinating in terms of, first of all, people who are saying things that nobody understands, yet the people listening think, oh, my God, they must know what they’re talking about. Forget that. That’s, that’s where you can get hoodwinked. If you’re an investor. Don’t get me started on crypto.

Amy

I won’t! I do have another question. A lot of my audience, we call ourselves the blueprint breakers because we’re living a little bit of a non-traditional lifestyle. We’re either single without a partner and or we don’t have children. So I’m curious if you have any specific recommendations or considerations that women in those situations should think about?

Jan

Well, everybody needs to think about or to envision their future. Let me put it that way. And some people are fortunate that they can envision somebody else taking care of them. I have three children who are in significant relationships, and I have five grandchildren. But you know what, even though they’re there, I feel like it’s my job to ensure that they don’t have to take care of me financially. And, you know, if something happens to me that they can come visit me. And then leave and not be burdened. And envisioning the future that you want, and figuring out how you can live with dignity, not just if you’re sick, but you know, in all ways, as you age, is really important. And then trying to figure out and what decisions do you need to do what types of financial activity do you have to undertake in order to make these things happen. That’s the recipe for success. Pretending that it’s not there, pretending that you don’t have to deal with it. And you’re not going to have to deal with it is crazy. But I, you know, when you talk about non-traditional, it’s with pride, which it should be. Not with, you know, depression like, oh my god, I’m non-traditional, blah, blah, blah. I mean, you’re proud of the fact that you’re making it in this world the way you want to make it in this world. Well make sure that that’s happening across your life, not just how you think or what you do for a living, but also how you represent yourself financially, legally. We are so much more knowledgeable. And although I’m not a fan of the term, because it’s overused, empowered. Now, I think of my mother, and actually, my mother would have been a great portfolio manager. She was and still is a great stock picker. It’s like, amazing. But she was deferential to my father and to financial professionals in her life. You know, and I just think if she had been a different generation, she probably would have had a different, you know, path. Not been unhappy. But it’s, the deferential part is particularly frustrating to me. What we give up if we don’t represent ourselves.

Amy

That’s fascinating to consider that and to consider the history and how things have evolved. And it’s really cool that you’ve had the career that you’ve had, because you’ve been able to see, you’ve been able to sort of watch things change and develop. So that’s really intriguing as well.

Jan

Well, I’ll give you a little anecdote. And this would probably be something that many baby boomer women could tell you about. When I graduated from college, my father told me that I was not marketable to do anything. So he made me go to typing school and shorthand school, because he said, at least you can become a secretary. You know, I have other friends who went through the same thing. And actually, I’m really glad that I learned how to type because I’m, I write a lot for what I do for a living. And I type very quickly. As far as the short hand is concerned, I was number one in my class, but there’s a trick to it. You need to take it and then you need to be able to read it. I was really good at taking it, but couldn’t read it. So I wouldn’t have been a great secretary.

Amy

Well, thank you, Jan. I mean this I’ve really enjoyed our conversation. You’ve given me a lot of food for thought. And I’m sure our listeners when they get to hear this, we’re going to spark some conversations. We’re going to be having some lunches as we talk about these things together. So thank you very much for your time today.

Jan

Well, thank you, Amy. And it’s nice to meet you. And I appreciate you asking me to join you today.

Amy

Thank you for joining us for today’s episode of The Modern Elderwoman Podcast, “Are you financially ready for your future.” And a special thank you to today’s guest, Jan Blakeley Holman, thank you so much for your time and direction and advice. We truly appreciate it. Now, to my listeners, a special thank you to all of you for sharing this episode with your friends. And I have a very, very special request for you. Please go into the platform where you’ve listened to this podcast, and rate and review the podcast. It really helps us to get the word out there and helps the algorithm so that this podcast starts to become recognized as we are growing and expanding on our community. I really, really appreciate anything that you can do to go in and rate and review the podcast. I look forward to hearing from you soon. You can join us in our Facebook group, The Modern Elderwoman Podcast on Facebook and you can reach me at  amy@amyapalmer.com.

This podcast is for informational purposes only, and should not be relied upon as investment, legal, accounting, or tax advice. It is not intended to predict the performance of any investment or market, and is not a recommendation, offer, or solicitation to buy or sell any security or product, or adopt any investment strategy. Past performance is not an indication of future performance. Investing involves risk including possible loss of the money you invest. Consult your investment advisor before making any investment decisions. The information contained herein has been obtained from sources believed to be reliable. However, Thornburg Investment Management makes no representations or guarantees as to the accuracy or completeness of the information and has no obligation to provide any updates or changes. The views expressed are subject to change and do not necessarily reflect the views of Thornburg Investment Management. This podcast is for your personal and non-commercial use only. You may not use it in any other manner without the prior written consent of Thornburg Investment Management. Thank you for listening.